An excellent read for eurosceptics http://eutruth.org.uk/

I'm a Eurosceptic in that while I agree that there should be a European free trade association and co-operation on many issues between European countries, the EU as an organisation needs massive reforms and must stop becoming a country itself. Europe is a continent of many nations and countries. The EU should merely be a facilitator, not a federal government.

Oh btw that site talks utter crap mostly. A read for full blown Europhobes more like.

Really? .. Could you please elaborate Proud Salopian?

Anti EU is the correct term. Sounds much better than a childish, politically correct buzzword.

Redsquirrel, if you believe what that site says then you are a very gullible person.

I don't know where to begin... nearly everything on that site is down right false.

That website has more nonsense than the Shropshire Star in its entire history!

"The abolition of Britain is now set for May 2009"

That's quite a statement. I take it that "Britain" means the United Kingdom. Well there are no plans for its abolition.

"President Barroso of Europe"

No such position ("President of Europe") exists.

"The EU constitution in turn will abolish the nations of Britain, England, our 48 counties, our monarchy, common law, and the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties"

No, no, no, no, no..... :rolleyes:

"We will then be sealed inside the nation of the European Union, a dictatorship with a soviet style constitution, and the laws of a police state. The 111,000 EU regulations will then turn the former nation of Britain into a soviet style command economy, bringing unemployment and poverty to us all."

Oh dear. What nonsense.

"Since 1972 The Queen has ilegally signed five of the six EU Treaties."

Oh, illegally signed treaties... how's that? The Queen signs (well, actually Ministers sign on her behalf) all treaties.

"The five treaties define and build the EU as an unelected dictatorship."

This is like something from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "Help, help I'm feeling oppressed!"

"The EU's laws, passed by Westminster, give it the powers of a police state."

Do you know what a police state is?

"The sixth EU treaty will complete the abolition of Britain as a nation
- the Queen could sign it in as little as two years."

Abolishing nations... now that would be hard and impressive thing to do. England has been a nation without its own government since 1707. Even if the EU took full sovereignty (which it won't, even with the current Constitution it wants) then England and other nations will still exist.

"after which EU Commissioners will have the power to impose the Constitution (and the Euro) on us"

Actually, the Constitution allows for the UK to continue to remain outside the Euro for as long as it wants to.

"We have already lost most of our rights (including habeas corpus)."

Well that's simply not true.

"The EU costs us £200 billion pa, 20% of our economy"

Bloody hell. What rubbish.

"...the EU Regionalisation Plan. This will abolish England's 48 counties and replace them with 9 European regions, each with their own Regional Capital, which reports directly to Brussels, not to Westminster. This effectively obliterates the country of England."

Erm. Whatever. The regions exist as well as the counties. And no, regions don't have "Regional Capitals". And the regional assemblies are currently made up of local councillors. And the regional government offices are directly responsible to the British government and only the British government. And what's this about obliterating the country of England? You can sub-divide England up into counties, regions or whatever, it doesn't affect what is and is not England. Oh and England hasn't been a country since 1707 anyway.

It goes on and on in this vain. A few more quotes are "We have lost the right to freedom" and "We have lost the right to free speech" - it then gives examples that are lame and which are actions of our British government, not the EU.

I never thought I would have to defend the EU - as I said, I'm not exactly a fan of it - but this website is ridiculous. I've just found a whole chunk of utter rubbish.

"Britain's 153 embassies around the world will be closed as the ink from the Queen's signature dries. (As Tony Blair refused to admit this has been agreed to, Jose Zapatero, the Prime Minister of Spain, confirmed it in a February 2005 radio broadcast.)

After the EU abolishes our 48 counties your address will change from 4 High St, Taunton, Somerset, Great Britain, to 4 High St, Taunton, Area K, European Union. (The glorious EU county "The South West Region" has had the postal address "Area K" assigned for over a decade.)

The Official National Anthem of the EU, which you should have known since 1971 is based on the melody "Ode to Joy" by Beethoven, formally replaces God save the Queen. The EU flag replaces the Union Jack, the red, blue and white nautical ensigns etc. (The EU Commission has already ordered (24.11.2005) our Merchant Navy to fly the EU flag in place of the red Ensign.)

The EU takes ownership and command of our Police, Army, Royal Navy, RAF, nuclear weapons, currency reserves, North Sea Oil. (See the EU Constitution below)

Serving officers in our police, army, navy and air force already know they will have to take an oath to the EU instead of to the Queen. If they don't many have been told they will be dismissed. The EU will have complete military control of the UK."

Completely and utterly untrue!! Every word!!

This is exactly the sort of thing that the European debate does not need. As a Eurosceptic I get annoyed with both extremes of the argument. But this is the daddy of rubbish that tries to put fear into people.

It's a shame people take information on sites like that at face value, there's a serious debate to be had about the EU and misinformation and propaganda like that doesn't help.

Some Europhobes go to ridiculous extremes and would find a way to blame the EU for their dog getting run over, you just need to read the letters page of the Shropshire Star to see cranks who write in with some tall tale every other day blaming the EU for all of the world's ills.

Yup, I agree.

And what annoys me is when people confuse Europhobes with Eurosceptics - I am a Eurosceptic, believing in a more flexible Europe where the EU plays a lesser role (chiefly sticking to economic union, but not a compulsary monetary union - those wishing be have the Euro may of course do so). Europhobes on the other hand believe that the EU is some sort of fascist dictatorship run by johny foreigner which is waiting to pounce on us and kill our babies. It's not 1939, but with some people's attitudes...

I've just read the bit where the guy accuses the Queen of treason and 'serving a higher master', he sounds a bit like David Icke, to devote so much time to writing such paranoid tosh is crazy!!

The guy has obviously put own personal touch to the site, eg -referring to the President of the European Commission as the 'President of Europe', still, his references (such asCivatas) are credible enough

Reforming the EU from within may sound a good thing to some -but it can't be done. Only a complete withdrawl from the EU can guarantee British independence. The ambiguous nonsense that we've heard from the Tory party for some time has led to large number of Conservatives leaving to join UKIP.

Quite honestly what does the european union do other than to finance poorer countries and let immigrant workers into the uk. Basically it sucs ! Happy New Year!

Well, a major achievement has been the creation of the single market enabling European businesses and consumers to benefit from increased competition and larger markets. Tariff barriers have been eliminated in the EU and are much lower with the rest of the world too.

Also the right to live, work, invest and own property anywhere in the EU without the need for immigration applications, work and residency permits etc is a benefit that millions of Brits have taken advantage of.

It's also worth remembering that Europe had been almost permanently at war for 1000 years up to WWII and in 60 years we've managed to get to a state where war between England and Spain or France and Germany would be pretty much unthinkable. That's no small achievement and while the EU isn't totally responsible, countries that are economically interdependent with populations who mingle far more than in the past are far less likely to fight each other.

Taken from UKIP's website-

10 REASONS WHY BRITAIN SHOULD LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION

1. To end the drain on the country's finances.

The government puts the net 'contribution' cost of our EU membership (1999) at £8.5 billion (equal to almost 4p of income tax) and the current estimates put it at £11 billion. The pro-EU Institute of Directors calculated it as more than double - and rising. Indirect costs - complying with regulations, loss of earnings from farming, fishing, etc., raise the overall cost still further.

Withdrawal from the EU would yield Britain a £25 billion Independence Dividend.

2. So that we can restore the full authority of Westminster, where the MPs we elect defend our interests, rather than accept rule from Brussels by bureaucrats we neither vote in nor have power to dismiss.

Four out of five of our laws now come direct from the EU. Because EU officials and Commissioners are specifically required NOT to take account of the interests of their own country, such legislation may disregard Britain's national interest!

Creating Regional Assemblies for each of Britain's Euro-Regions will cause a massive expansion in bureaucracy and administration costs and drive further wedges between Westminster, County & District Councils and the voters.

3. So that we can pursue 'British' policies for agriculture and fishing, based on optimal self sufficiency and the maximisation of our natural resources.

EU 'Common' Policies for fishing & farming are expensive, wasteful, cruel, immoral as well as harmful to the environment and the developing world. British farmers are weighed down by bureaucracy and form filling and constrained by inappropriate quotas. Their 'green pound' incomes are determined by the value of sterling on the world's foreign exchanges – even if they never export!

4. The EU Single Market, with its fanciful 'level playing field' and a mass of costly regulations, sets member state against member state - whilst preventing each from capitalising on its own individual strengths.

The City of London will be (deliberately) weakened by 'financial services' legislation carried by the votes of EU countries with no comparable financial sectors of their own. Similarly, our position - unique within the EU - as a world leader in the art & antiques trades, is threatened by 'harmonised' VAT.

5. Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

When EU 'harmonisation' has raised costs and taxes here to the levels of those in France and Germany, what businesses will come and set up - or remain - here?

6. The EU is yesterday's idea. Unlike the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), it is not a free trade zone but a protectionist Customs union.

Even small, non-EU countries trade with the EU on better terms than those of Britain – but without the cost and loss of self-government EU membership entails. EU regulations impose extra costs on every business in the country – including the 90% that never export and those that export only to non-EU markets.

Ongoing EU trade disputes with America, and Brussels' reluctance to accept WTO rulings that don't go in its favour, harm British exporters.

7. The EU is dominated by France and Germany. For forty years, their heads of government have been meeting twice yearly to set their common agenda.

EU enlargement will reduce Britain's voting rights from the present 15% to less than 10%. It is dangerous and naive to think we have any real influence – let alone be able to defend our vital interests against France's unbridled hostility to America and the Anglo-Saxon 'model'.

8. The EU will oblige Britain to abandon the centuries old democratic and legal systems that have been embraced by countries throughout the world.

Our legal system will be turned upside down as we go over to the Napoleonic code system: we will be deemed guilty until proved innocent, liable to virtually unlimited detention without charge (in the absence of habeas corpus) and lose the right to trial by jury. The banning of imperial measures is designed to deny British companies any 'natural' advantage when quoting for American contracts.

9. In order to retain full control over our borders and armed forces.

Jurisdiction over who may enter and remain in Britain must be the sole preserve of our Westminster parliament.

Britain's armed services are for defending Britain's interests, not for allowing the French to indulge their long-standing obstructive hostility to America and Nato.

10. So that we do not bind and betray future generations.

Being in the EU means that all our national resources - gold reserves, North Sea Gas & Oil, fish stocks – will have to be placed at the disposal of the EU. The debts of Continental pension funds will become the debts of our children - who may not even be assured pensions of their own. The 'acquis communautaire' (= ratchet) process ensures that EU legislation is unlikely ever to be repealed or amended.

"Taken from UKIP's website"

Exactly - It's not going to be at all biased is it? They take a piece of information, twist it to mean something different then with a leap of faith extrapolate that to lead off at a eurosceptic tangent, before you know it they've "proved" that those pesky French and other assorted johnny foreigner types are engaged in a dastardly plot to destroy blighty. Blair would be proud of that kind of spin.

But at what price? ...... Now that Romania and Bulgaria have joined the European Union. We'll soon be witnessing another flood of cheap migrant labour, scroungers and god knows what else.
A Romanian source predicts that 450,000 Romanian migrants will head to Britain in 2007, and it is believed that 150,000 Bulgarians will also enter the country. The government had the power to make it compulsory for the new immigrants to carry passports but the Home Office refused to implement this.

UKIP, like the BNP offer the electorate an anti EU alternative. Given that Lab/Con/Lib-Dems are all pro EU, this can only be a healthy thing.
Personally, I don't think much spin is required in 'selling' the anti EU message to the British public.On the other hand, Blair and co -plus the EU itself, have gone into overdrive with their pro EU campaigns -and squandered a fortune in the process.

I haven't been done any harm by Poles or Czechs and I very much doubt Romanians (who are mostly intending to move to Italy or Spain anyway, even MigrationWatch now accept this) are going to negatively affect my quality of life either.

Of course it's healthy to have a choice of political views but that doesn't stop me thinking most of what UKIP say is either completely false or heavily spun.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Jonesy.Happy New Year!