There is a worrisome article in the Daily Telegraph (DT) about the demise of the English Pub. Here is a link to the article, which appeared in today's (December 30?) paper, on line.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...2/30/do3004.xml

Does anyone believe that true English pubs are disappearing? If they are in decline elsewhere in Britain, how about in Shropshire?

I know which ones I liked when I lived in Shrewsbury as a graduate student back in the 60s and 70s, and which ones I liked, when I revisited in 2004. (But when I visited in 2004, it was as a tourist (this time, with wife), and so, I didn't live with and mix with the locals in our 2004 visit.)

So, I wonder whether what I didn't see in 2004 was the result of my tourist status, or because ... it just ain't there any more.

Hope the (above) link works. Your thoughts on the DT article?

Firstly, people and society have changed in Britain and our pubs and other eating/drinking establishments have changed to reflect this. However, there are still many great pubs out there and I would question how one can define a "traditional English pub". In Shropshire and Manchester (the two places where I currently live) there is a healthy mix of places for people to go, catering for everyone. Which is how it should be in a market driven country like the UK.

The article seems to be another typical "fear of change" kind of thing. I'm not worried. And anyway, in recent years hasn't there been a revival in traditionalism in England and real ale production/consumption?

Have a read of the comments posted on that Telegraph page too.

hello Vince

in the last 10 years Shropshire has lost 66 public houses,in six months time a smoking ban comes into force, a similar ban in Ireland and Scotland has alledgedly resulted in the closure of over 2,000 rural bars so I think that we are about to lose a few more.

s.g.d.

They've always been keystones of English working class communities. I think there's still a big demand for the traditional local pub.

They will continue to exist where demand allows for them.

We went to a comedy gig on at the Old Post Office which was pretty good except that the smoke and lack of ventilation in the room used became unbearable towards the end and would put me off going again unfortunately.

The closure of pubs is far more a result of alcohol being so easy to buy thesedays and that it is a lot cheaper to drink at home.
I remember in Ledbury in the '70's where my parents had a shop, there being a huge furore about the possible opening of an off licence. There were so many pubs then you wouldn't believe it now but alcohol was not easy to obtain otherwise.

The pubs were far more individual and some quite scruffy compared to today but by the same token more characterful, many with real antiques and open fires.
The introduction of noisy game machines was a pity IMHO. :(
Then again, at least by that time, those of us of the fairer sex could at least go in them without being considered tarts etc.
I remember a fantastic pub in Manchester, near Didsbury i think called THe Victoria with an old piano, great sing songs and huge trays of seafood brought around to buy. Fantastic!

Whatever. I'm never going to drink again. :blink: :o

I say that almost every year at this time. :lol:

'Traditional British pubs' have been declining for decades, look how many there were Shrewsbury in the 19th C compared to now and there are far fewer. That's not neccesarily a bad thing though, it just means that people's leisure options have expanded beyond getting drunk.

A lot of things have completely dissapeared since the 19th Century and thankfully the good ol' pub hasn't!

Rowley's bar is about to have a refit, turning it into a "vodka bar" at the cost of thirty thousand pounds.

s.g.d.

Ye gods. Well, I suppose the West End of Shrewsbury is the Chav capital of Shropshire so a vodka bar is appropriate.

Moving up in the world! It wasn't long ago that Shrewsbury use to lie at a lowly 5th place in the All-Shropshire Chav League Table behind Telford, Oswestry, Wem and Craven Arms.

Does this mean that we now qualify for the regional finals? Even with a vodka bar, we're probably still some way behind Wrexham and Wolverhampton. Best stick to Britain in Bloom, I suppose.

You forget Newport. I can't imagine that Shrewsbury has ever, or will ever, be more chavvy than either Newport or Telford.

Ah but on Friday and Saturday nights, all the chavs of Telford come over to Shrewsbury on the train...

It's hard enough to find a train between Telford and Shrewsbury during the day, let alone late in the evening. There's far too much potential for chavs to get stranded here.

Sounds to me like there's a plot to equalise the chav quotient in each town. Is this the first effect of the proposals for a unitary council? I think we should be told.

The train station is a good place to start.

If I get a later train home from work on a Friday I often see groups of people looking like they're going for a night on the lash getting on at Wellington but not so many at Telford Central for some reason.

I've never found Shrewsbury station to be a good place to start a journey to anywhere.

The line between Shrewsbury and Telford is actually quite frequent with trains.

Indeed and at some point in the next 10 years they'll even get them working properly so they are on time every now and then.

Its not exactly an high speed line either, i was going to Wellington the other day in my 15 year old Metro and i flew past the train which was ambling along at about 50,its time that line was upgraded to at least 90 mph.

The train does go a bit faster than 50, it only takes 15 minutes from Shrewsbury to Wellington and 1hr to Brum and it doesn't have to wait for ages at the A5/A49 roundabout.

IF it's on time. Try spending 40 minutes at Wellington station waiting for trains because they are so late from Brum that they turn around at Wellington to get back on time leaving you stranded. Happened to me twice in one month and I now opt for the car to Telford.

I know, I get the train to Brum every day, to be fair the Central trains service is pretty good, Arriva Trains Wales services though are often late because of the poor quality track between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth where they start from.

You're right, of course, for a largely rural line, its frequency is quite good. Actually what depresses me about the journey back from Brummagem in the evening is that both carriages of the train often contain hordes of malodorous chavs screaming and running up and down the aisles.

Chavs - everyone's problem, but no one deals with them.

Last week I sat next to a lad at the fracture clinic, probably about 13 yrs old. He proudly told me he is a chav in between asking if I'd ever had stitches out. His Mum said he was asking everyone as he didn't believe her when she said it wouldn't hurt! Reassuring him, I told him my younger son is a Goth and he said that he didn't hate Goths.
The point I am making is these names are just labels just like football supporters, some are psychopathic racists with a personality disorder but most just kids at an age when belonging to a group is a passage to being an adult.

The problems this causes seems to be worse in small towns where young people are in the minority and councils are run by long serving, parochial, mainly older councillors who become obsessed with steam train history, island bedding and water colour exhibitions!!! :D

What's wrong with being interested in steam train history, island bedding and water colour exhibitions? I'd rather have those sort of people in charge out there than idiotic chav hooligans.

back to pubs - the White Horse is now closed but it is only for a refit.

that's what they said about the Buffalo though.

s.g.d.

:o Clun is down to one pub!!

There's a website for the White Horse but no mention of a closure

www.whi-clun.co.uk

sorry about the confusion,I meant the White Horse in Shrewsbury.

s.g.d.

Panic over then!

The White Horse (Wenlock Road) is having a refit I hear and should be open shortly.