It has become a kind of shorthand for a form of behaviour that everyone recognises instantly. Rowdy groups of young people spill out of a pub, and then rampage through the streets, roughing up each other and anyone else unfortunate enough to cross their drunken path. This is what is often perceived as "yob culture". The words now have become a rallying cry for politicians in the law and order debate. But who, and what, are we really talking about and why dont they have the same problem in Europe?

I think the British are so conservative in their approach that there is almost an acceptance for such intolerable behaviour. We dont complain enough!

Joy riders, intimidators, loud mouthed holligans commit crimes against soceity daily yet every one seems to turn a blind eye. The future seems bleak. So what do we do ?

It isn't just a British problem. If it were, I would happily move to get away from it.

I was thinking of moving to France and investigated fairly thoroughly. They do have yobbery, grafitti and vandalism, they just don't tell everyone. In and around the cities 'yobbery' can be quite severe.

A popular crime in the Montpelier area was to drive out of the city at night, with no lights on the car. The first oncoming vehicle to flash their lights was shot at.

Spain and Germany (at least) have 'happy slapping' and other crimes that get filmed on mobiles and circulated. A recent idea is to walk across busy roads and try to cause and accident, while someone records the event on their phone or camera.

In the UK, I saw some of the yobs fighting in Aberystwyth at night. Some of them were young, but there were guys in their 30s-50s as well. Yobs round Manchester are 16-60, I think.

I read through the BBC's pages for Wales. They cover quite a large number of towns, and people can add a comment. More than one town mentioned having no local police, and that the yobs know this and generally run riot at night.

I have no idea what the answer is.

Culling, maybe? :lol:

Let us not forget that last year half of Paris was burning because of rioting. Things are pretty bad in this country with yobs, etc but at least we don't have all out anarchy like they do elsewhere. Well, not yet...

I didn't mention the rioting, because it has an ethnic dimension (and I think that subject is being covered elsewhere on the forum). It was actually right across France in virtually every major city, and some of the larger towns. In a way the riots were the result of a pressure-cooker situation, but it's harder to explain why behaviour standards are low, right across society, particularly in the young. Some of the youth crime, UK-wide, Europe-wide and I suppose worldwide, is blamed on unemployment, poor housing and the usual causes.

The crime that's harder to understand is the anti-social behaviour that's part of a 'night out', or takes place right in your neighbourhood (under the noses of oblivious parents). For some neighbourhoods and towns, this has become a repetitive way of life.

Could it be general decadence of the Western world..?

Quite probably. Right. That's another subject sorted. :lol:

Strange I should have mentioned the 'pastime' of causing traffic accidents, and then found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/6074690.stm

I blame it on the Reformation.

I'm sure that the majority of kids are ok - even some of the more scarey looking ones!
Maybe there should be more done to help young blokes channel their natural aggression/ energy in a positive way.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6074252.stm

I think there are too many 'do-gooders' in soceity generally everything we do now has to be politically correct. Even criminals seem to fair better than law abiding citizens. A poll was taken by one of the tabloids in Europe, which includes us ! The majority of people from britain who answered the poll said that if they saw unruly behaviour in public they would not intervene. The Europeans said they would intervene. What does this say about our soceity? I think that there are intimidating gans of people who roam the streets. if the government dont step in soon with a realistic solution and everyone knows what it is, then people will start taking the law into their own hands, forming and even more difficult problem. :unsure:

Thank years of interfering from the 'busy body' liberal brigade for much of this problem. What's needed is a firm but fair approach.
Sloppy parenting should be punished too. How many so-called parents, I wonder, devote more time to tv soaps,bingo, boozing, etc than raising their offspring properly?

So Social Services need to get their act together. The more people complain the better I think, clearly the Police are not supported, politicians dont seem to care and are more worried, selfishly, about their status in soceity. It needs someone in authority to give authority to 'collar' these people and act firmly with some kind of test case. The problem is when senior politicians do speak up they are jumped on by the 'do-gooders'

The two reasons for yob behaviour are

- for many young people (but not all) yob behaviour can be fun, and a quick way to gain the approval of your peer group
- yob behaviour (especially of the petty graffiti and vandalism variety) is going unpunished

Where most of the police are too busy doing paperwork to comply with centrally-imposed targets, have been reallocated to stop rival football supporters from obliterating each other, and the rest are off attending gender-awareness courses, what do you expect?

And, as I've already mentioned on this forum, this is from a regular Guardian reader.

Its all good stuff 'Town Walls' I agree with all you say.Dont you think its time people make a stand ? I think i can anticipate your answer. Guardian reader or not ! Also what I will say is forums like these give 'joe public' a great platform to complain. This is so in the public domain and can more effectively deal with these contensious issues

"Yobs In Britain - Europe dont get this problem"

From the BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6086418.stm

You know, it could be that it's even worse over the Channel!

You certainly get problems with disaffected and unemployed youth in the poorer suburbs of French cities and large towns, I used to live in the eastern 'banlieux' of Greater Paris and the situation was fairly grotty in many areas then (7 years ago). The difference is though that in this country you seem to get it everywhere from central London to small rural villages.

We can't afford to be too cocky in this country looking at the French riots, it was only last year that there was one in Birmingham and a bit further back in places like Oldham and Bradford. Even dear old Wrexham and the tough inner city ghettos of Criccieth have had them in recent years too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5117142.stm

Yes you are right Jonesy.

About a year ago I was shocked to see a small group of chavs in Clun! :o

Europe obviously has its problems. Statistics show that our country have the greatest problems. Can anyone honestly put their hands up to saying this country socially is getting better. I would say it was more of a bindge culture showing lack of confidence and hanging around in numbers in a somewhat cowardly fashion. I am referring to general attitudes also of tolerance from the general public to yobbism in both this country and europe. To challenge this behaviour in the uk can prove fatal with the consequence of literally having your head kicked in

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6074252.stm