The Shropshire Star reporting yet another attack on a fire crew in Shropshire. They were called out to an arson fire in Sundorne (Sloppy Star says Harlescott, but what do they know) and were attacked by a large group of yobs.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/11/yobs...k-firefighters/

When will the wider society finally say "enough" and tackle this sort of thing? How many more years do we put up with this growing anarchical sub-culture?

Think I'll be moving out into the countryside. At least there the occasional idiot can be dealt with in a traditional manner... :rolleyes:

I read that on the BBC Shropshire website. I'm just amazed at that. I'm sure similar incidents occur over here, but I have never heard of any. Does law enforcement not respond along with the fire crews? I understand it's "just" a rubbish fire, but apparently this isn't the first time this has happened.

From what I saw, or rather, didn't see when I was on holiday there, your law enforcement presence is on stealth mode.

Our police are generally useless.

Regretably this is common place in the UK. Buses regularly get 'bricked' in Shrewsbury also. The one big problem giving this obviously totally outrageous behaviour publicity, strengthens its cause and kids these days seem to 'tag-on' to these incidents. Hence this situation escalates.

Manchester fire crews had this problem about three years ago and have fixed cameras in their vehicles to record this. They then set up an awareness campaign and the incidents of sheer criminal damage stopped

I think the parents of these kids need to be held accountable for their actions by publicly 'outing' them in the press and if their vandal offsprings are not dealt with or offend again punish them legally. I think national service would be another option as the Army are short of recruits currently. I also think the judiciary really need to think of ways of punishments that suit reparation to the communities these vandals come from, a prison sentence these days only helps kids offend again when their released

I never understand why the police are not present in known trouble spots at known trouble times of day. Like at the bus station around 4/5pm.

As you said on another thread David, report it, get the incident number and it should be followed up

Well, this was on the front page of the Sloppy Star, so I hope the police have noticed.

Now they can record it and file the event in their system of bureaucracy. Excellent.

I agree 100%!

I think the criticism of the police here is a bit harsh though. I'm not saying they are perfect but to say that they have their own system of bureaucracy is a bit incorrect. They do indeed have a system of bureaucracy, but it is one that is forced upon them, not one of their own choosing. Nor are they supported by our half wit government and law makers who keep changing the goal posts. The police are prevented from doing the job we all want them to, and that they want to do themselves.

I may be wrong, but I guess that the goverment and the law makers in the United States are a bit tougher on crime and a bit less worried about the lack of prison space. Whereas here it now seems that there is nowhere to put you so therefore we'll let you off. Yeah, that's a sensible policy. Is it just me or wasn't one of the Labour election pledges to be tough on crime? Well that was an outright lie then.

We do have a lot of people in jail! You do bring up a valid point about your police having their hands tied. I didn't see much law enforcement presence except in Edinburgh because of the Tattoo and in London near the major tourist sites. I didn't mean to be critical of the police themselves. I am law enforcement and at times it is very frustrating because my colleagues and I are always saying, "If we were only allowed to do our job."

Sometimes it is the fault of those higher up in the food chain within the organization. However, a lot of times it is those who provide us the funds or make the laws that frustrate us. However, I was taught in the academy that it all starts with officer presence...i.e. authoritative voice....clean uniform.....posture....being seen that will at least deter crime. I didn't see that all. That might not be the force's fault if they don't have funding to be out there.

That's exactly right Mark.

Police don't seem to wield the same power that they used to. When I was a lad, say twenty years ago, I was afraid of the police. If they told you to do something you did it! These days the police have lost the respect of the younger generations because they (the kids) know that the police have no powers to punish them.

And as you say, you only really see the police driving around these days, apart from in big cities. Whereas twenty years ago you saw them walking around everywhere. "On the beat" so to speak. I think they are too bogged down with stupid paperwork these days to do actual policing.

The only members of the law enforcement community that seem to walk a beat these days are the Community Support Officers, and please correct me if i'm wrong but Park Right seem to have more power then they do :blink:

I knew this would come back and haunt us. The idiots in power who said talk to your child and explain to them they are naughty but dont hit them because you will teach them violence is the answer to all their problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember the old saying spare the rod and spoil the child Well it has come true.... :angry:

The trouble is their parents do hit them, then they join a gang, stay out all night in fear of being battered, get more respect from the gang than from their parents then through their own vulnerability get drawn into crime. Basically they have morons for parents who cannot interact with their children, only when they do their drunk or drugged-up. I see it every day in my job!

Too a certain extent I agree with you Andy But on the estate where I live there are several holigans in the making, These kids are 5/6year olds they have in the last month or so Smashed a windscreen (£600) scratched bodywork (£200+) verbally abuse anyone who complains sit on the side of the road throwing stones at passing traffic, pull the heads of flowers in your front gardens, the only satisfaction I got was they abused a foxglove(digitallis?) which is mildly poisenous,put them in bed for a couple of days, I saved the best till last one of these kids set his house on fire 2 tenders and ambulance 1 person in hospital..
Now the punishment for this little lot "No TV for 2 nights for the fire raiser" and as far as I know nothing for the rest of this little gang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The attitude of the parents seemed to be< Aww bless boys will be boys> :(
If I have my way they'll never be men because I'll rip their decorations off :lol: :lol:

Oh great - more yobs in the making.

Time to move out!

If you have evidence of this damage and that these children have done it then legally there is a case for criminal damage. Although the children are to young to be prosecuted, their parents in this case with evidence would definately be penalised.

The problem the police have B16 is a firm conviction. Some people video the evidence anonymously this is used in court. Surely in a case like this anybody in their right mind would report this to the police. I am involved in my job in implementing 'parent contracts' in both schools and the local community as part of the governments anti-social bill Parenting contracts support parents who have failed to secure their child's regular attendance at school. They also act for anti-social or criminal behaviour out of school. Parents would agree to specific actions to improve their child's attendance at school, or improve their behaviour. If they dont comply they are fined.

I logged in today hoping to find a post about these arson attacks. I lived in Chicago for nearly 30 years prior to moving to Shrewsbury, and it seems to be there are more arson attacks here than in Chicago. Probably some of that is due to under-reporting of the attacks back home, but I would absolutely love to hear what the police are doing about this epidemic (if that's the right word). Back home it would be front page news and the arsonists would most likely be caught and thrown in jail within a week. It's surreal to think that this kind of thing happens with such regularity in a town like Shrewsbury. I am all about naming-and-shaming. I bet local businesses would even sponsor mini-billboards at the bus/railway stations and other well-travelled locations with their names and faces. Heck, *I* would sponsor one!

It's quite common in North Shrewsbury (Harlescott, Ditherington, Sundorne, etc). Seems there was another arson attack yesterday -

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/12/epil...-home-attacked/

Bored, idiotic youths basically.

Meanwhile in Oswestry...

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/12/arso...or-fourth-time/

:rolleyes:

Agree with your comment on the Shropshire Star website.

I do wonder how many beat officers are available to patrol the area. Probably a handful of overstretched young policemen spread over huge swathes of country.

As i mentioned on the previous page the only "police" presence around these days are the community support officer :angry:

Ahh, the rotten fruits of 30 years+ of liberalism. It's about time we punished the scum and their so-called parents.

You just can't rely on the police to do their jobs, these days - and I've just about given up on them now.
I've had to deal with scumbags myself a number of times and no doubt, I'll have to do it again.

Funny how a effective a visit from an extremely p**sed off 6ft 2, 18st bloke seems to be.

Red Squirrel for PM I say. :D

Blast, that's the problem. My 6 foot and 10 stone probably won't do the trick.

Thanks but no thanks, Andy. As an industrial cleaner, I'm used to working amongst filth, mate -
But New Labour slime? -Ughh, no way.

:D

Everything seems to be going pear shaped but life is what you make it ay!