I live in Belle Vue and use Greyfriars Bridge several times a day. For those of you familiar with the area, you will be aware of the band of merry gentlemen (and occasional ladies) who like to sit on either side of the bridge. They usually just sit there with their dogs and don't bother anyone (much), but lately they have resumed begging for money and being really stroppy with people who don't give them anything. Today they were beyond drunk, weeing into the river and spouting rubbish to everyone who would listen.

I have become resigned to seeing them on the bridge all the time, but when they start up with the begging and getting bolshy about it I feel like I need to do something but never know what to do. Do you call the Council? West Mercia Police? I know the Community Support Officers are around sometimes but how do you get hold of one?

The last straw was when I found a blood-filled syringe on Greyfriars Bridge on a Sunday morning. I just don't know what to do about it. Any suggestions?

Its illegal to obtain money by menace so realistically they are breaking the law by their intimidating behaviour. Each area for Shrewsbury has a community police officer. I would get in touch with them through the monkmoor police station.Technically these people could be served with an ASBO.

I forgot about Monkmoor Police Station. Good idea. After much digging I found an e-mail address for the Belle Vue Local Policing Team ('bellevueandsuttonandreabrook.lpt@westmercia.pnn.police.uk') and copied in Mansel Williams (our local Councillor) who is usually very on-top of these kinds of issues. I'll let you all know if I get any joy.

Crikey, I got a response from my Councillor in 90 minutes!

"Thank you for the email. I will:

(1) forward it to the Borough Council's Community Safety team and

(2) will ask for urgent action to be taken by the Police.

Anyone asking for money in such a manner is committing an offence. I will be expecting immediate action by the police. I will report to you both parties responses."

I do find too that Greyfriars Bridge nearly always has beggers, especially on the St. Julian's Friars end.

That big spiky monument by Greyfriars as you walk into the quarry is also usually populated by connoisseurs of cheap cider (and probably other stuff). :rolleyes:

well done for doing something about it! i too find these beggars intimidating. i know everyone has a right to live but it is disgusting to leave syringes about etc . i have no problem with the people who sell the big issue etc, or just try to play music and dont abuse you but it is the abuse i dont like. also they always seem to have skinny dogs with them which is only because a) they think this will increase sympathy towards them and B) more importantly they get extra benefits for having them!

Apparently the two women who were selling the big issue came from Wolverhampton daily and were involved in a pick pocketing scheme. One was found to have £700 on her after a failed bag snatch in the Cancer Charity Shop. I have been told that the pregnancy was bogus too!
I was surprised as they had been around for about two years.

The begging on the bridge has been going on for years. I remember feeling very nervous going across with my children quite young and they are in their teens now. One of the rough sleepers was 'peeing' on a duck off the bridge to the amusement of the others but when I tried to ring crimestoppers from the phone box there, I got no answer.

I think things are a bit better now with the community police to call upon.

Mansels false PR wouldn't fool me thesedays.

What evidence do you have for your claims about the Romanian women? I talked to them often, and have met them since at their new pitches in Aberystwyth. And I can tell you the pregnancy of one of them was completely genuine! Just because they're homeless, doesn't give you the right to libel them.

It seems SABC have a policy of flushing any homeless and street people out of the town; certainly out of the river loop. The men's shelter's closed (and the date for reopening keeps slipping), there's nowhere for homeless women to go, homeless people are being threatened with ASBOs essentially for being homeless ... have we as a town got so little compassion for people in desperate need?

The thread is about somebody being harrassed by some beggers and didn't hit on compassion.

I would not class these people as in desperate need at all. Perhaps people with desperate problems who can only be solved by themselves commiting to them 'face-on'.I would ask anyone giving them cash to think again as they are indeed fuelling their illness, that would be more compassionate. I saw two of them in Morrisons recently and their trolley was stacked high with good quality food. I was class that as devious rather than desperate

I also refuse to give these people money, they obviously find it from somewhere to be able to drink the amounts of alcohol that they do! Our students often use the quarry in their breaks and lunchtimes to relax, and are constantly hassled by these people begging for money or making suggestive comments at the young girls, that to me is not desperate behaviour it is purely repulsive. I'm sorry but my sympathy for these people was lost a long time ago when i realised that i recognised some of their faces and realised that not all of these people need to be homeless, some of them choose to live this way, as i know that some have families and homes to go to they just prefer to live this way. Its always the dogs i feel sorry for, they only get them so that they get more benefits. If anything needs to be given to these people its tins of dog food to make sure they are fed properly rather than giving them cash that they will just squander on alcohol!!!

Did you not observe that I said 'Apparently'? A friend of mine was working in the Cancer Research Charity Shop when the handbag was stolen.
I have mixed feelings about the begging. I did buy a carton of milk for an old guy a few years back on the pretext that I would not give him money but something useful to him!

I certainly did not like my children threatened however and I know that those folk living next to the river have to put up with antisocial behaviour opposite their back gardens.

Having worked with children who have been abused and rejected by their families (and may be society) plus the seemingly never ending problems of alcohol and drug abuse it isn't difficult to see how some people end up with no self respect and end up making things worse for themselves.

Eastern European gangs of pickpockets are indeed targeting people in Shrewsbury. I know this to be true because my wife was targeted a couple of months ago. Also, I've spoken to a number of other people who've fallen victim to these scumbags.

As for the problem with the unwashed dross that hang around Greyfiars Bridge and the Quarry? Imagine the fun to had with a bottle of Vim and a high power pressure hose! - Sigh, if only.

I can't say I've ever noticed the great unwashed (apart from sixth formers, of course) hanging around in the Quarry, but around Greyfriars Bridge they're a nuisance.

For the Special Brew set, I thought the station was the place to be seen these days?

Hang on, I've got two at 6th form now and believe me the amount of time spent in the shower/bath truly entitles them to compete with the 'wrinklies.'

Apologies to those who consider themselves to be wrinklies or possibly 'posh early retirees' spending inordinate amounts of money on creams and botox so as to avoid that label! (and beause they're worth it, of course!)

BTW, personally I find just being fat smooths out the skin nicely and saves a lot of money that I'd have to spend on wrinkle cream/ cosmetic surgery. :lol:

i think you will find that the reason sabc try to remove these beggars is only because they have had complaints about their behaviour. there are still plenty of tramps around who do not casue trouble and i have seen them around town for years and do not get moved on. it is puely down to the beggars attitude as to whether they are allowed to stay as why should innocent by standers with young children etc get abused for no reason?
i have to say i have noticed one old tramp with a bag of bread feeding the birds and i thought that was quite touching. i would not give money however but i did consider going into the chippy etc to buy him some chips but he had gone before i got near one!

You could always have got him some chips some the Littleboro Chip Shop. One portion from there, cheese and hairs included, and he'd soon be out of town.

Talk about homelessness always gets me frustrated. I cross greyfriars at least twice a day, and have NEVER been the victim of verbal-abuse or threats. Yes, often I get asked for spare change... but that's it.
I have no problem whatsoever. People maybe a little rowdy sometimes, but you see that every day of the week on pride hill with any number of people, homeless or not.
I believe a lot of people see someone scruffy, living rough and begging, and assume they're up to no good, abusive and dangerous.

I too would say not to give money directly into the hands of people on the streets, as that money may well be funding an addiction that will kill them.

Giving to a charity like Isaiah 58 [http://www.shrop.net/isaiah58project]

or Housing Young People in Shrewsbury http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/childrenfamil...0256D6E00353270

will give people the chance to overcome their problems.

I can't stand how society simply thinks by locking people up, or shipping them out of town is going to help. "Just to keep Shrewsbury tidy".

In particularly bad weather I took two people into my house because there wasn't enough provision for them in town. I would do it again.

Once I stopped a group of young lads stealing the big issues from the Romanian women. They were publicly ridiculing these poor women and noone was saying a thing.

Do not think that 'out of sight out of mind' is going to improve our town.
Do not call people scum just because they're on the streets. If people actually cared about the town and the people who lived here, the drug, alcohol, physical and mental abuse, homeless and shelter charities wouldn't be desperately searching for every scrap of money they can find.

Sorry for the rant, but I wish people would be prepared to be a bit more informed before they make such statements.
Please help where you can.

I would agree with most of what you said jammy but you have got to admit these people can only help themselves. I have done a lot of work with 'cold comfort' and 'Centrepoint' which I feel have totally different situations with homeless people who are far more vulnerable than the ones mentioned. Shrewbury is a haven for homeless people and especially in the summer where they all congregate mainly because they see it as a 'safe' town and they are not exactly ousted, are they?. They have to learn to live with everday life in Shrewsbury and are their own worst enemy mainly due to the consumption of alcohol or drugs which indeed is a habit fed by money given to them by the public. This gives them the confidence to be 'more confident'. Regarding the people who are reffered to in this thread, they have been offered help and this has been declined on several occassions, as I have said before it has to be the individuals descision to take a step into a world which they have little confidence in initially. Catch 22 indeed. There was an implication that no one was trying to help them in your thread but believe me there is and Shrewsburys voluntary sector is not ingnorant here, behind the scenes it really cares :)

There are now large numbers of homeless Romanians in the area of London where i live, and they are rapidly increasing in number. A public toilet near me has now become little more than a hostel for east european homeless. Sad to see they have migrated up to Shropshire. The fact that they have come hundreds of miles through several other countries to live on the streets here shows that we are considered a very soft touch. A favourite trick is for them to strap a baby to their back and beg on the underground all day. I was recently abused by two of them on my way home from my local station when i refused to give them money. Don't defend these people. They have come here because they think that they can get money for nothing.

Sad for whom?

They've not come here because they think they can get money for nothing. They've come here in search of a better life. Sadly, not all of them find it. Yes, they've come hundreds of miles through other countries to get here; they've probably paid money they can ill afford to a people-trafficker to get them here. Now, they find themselves in desperate straits. These are fellow human beings in trouble. If those of us with a shred of humanity don't defend them, then who will?

Not really because there are also plenty of Romanians in France, Germany, The Netherlands and especially Spain where there are millions. If we were such a 'soft touch' they would all come here not just some. Maybe the ones who come here speak a bit of English or just think that the UK has a reputation as a place where people can improve their life conditions.

The beggars on the underground with babies seems to me to be more likely to be Roma rather than Romanians as they do this throughout Europe especially further East in countries like Romania and Bulgaria.

Hey, how about all you big-hearted 'humanitarians', taking these homeless Romanians into your own homes?
You want them over here? - Then you feed and clothe them. Because rest us of are pig-sick of shelling out for these scroungers.

I really think this small island has got enough on its plate fearthebeast. What about child poverty in this country?.We need to clear our own problems up before getting a 'do-good' attitude and let everyone in!

Watch tommorrow night Panorama BBC 1 @ 8.00perhaps this will let you see our small island it fit to bursting with illegal immigrants. People come here for a better life sure but most of them are here illegally it seems. Do you support this?

What about child poverty? That's a complete non sequitur. Our problems are pretty insignificant compared to those of other countries around the world. And we're not just letting everyone in, either.

Unlike you, I'm not going to comment on a TV programme I've not seen, but we're hardly `fit to bursting', whatever that means. People come here for a better life, and some of them are here illegally. No, I don't support that; nothing I've said could possibly have given you that impression.

i just think if the immigrants trying to find a better life were kind of "shared out" more equally between the richer countries it would be alot fairer and the general public might not be so anti immigrants.
whereas i have visions of the french shepharding them over to us... :P

There are plenty of immigrants in France too.

i know they do have immigrants too but im pretty sure we seem to have the most as they want to come to england for our benefit system and free healthcare etc

The "official" governement stat for France for 2006 was 8% of the population being of immigrant status. The most up to date UK stat I can find is 4.8% and that was for 2003. That would suggest that France has far more immigrants than the UK. Perhaps as many as double. Don't forget that for every Eastern European attracted to the UK, there is a French speaking African desperate to cross the Mediterranean.

Personally I think immigration is a great thing. Without it this country would be in a right mess.

As a slight aside but still on the stats theme, apparently 390,000 people in the UK said on the 2001 census that their religion is Jedi. Making it the 4th largest religion in the country. Perhaps we should encourage these crazy folk to emmigrate.

did you watch panorama last night? i only saw a bit of it but basically on there they were saying we have no idea whatsoever how many immigrants are now in the uk. for instance one source would be possibly new people registering at the drs but they dont actually have to register new people only those transfering from one to another and as most immigrants woul be new hardly any are picked up this way. there were loads of other suggestions such as this to say we dont know how many and i think that is something to do with the government not really wanting high statistics being readily available-but statistics can be altered to show whatever you want basically-you just need to massage the figures

not sure what you mean about if we didnt have immigration we would be in a mess?? i think this country is in a terrible mess , such as education, health etc and actually alot of that is down to all the extra people coming into the country using our resources and not putting anything back

the workers that come over here do so in order to earn more money than bakc home-but where does that money go???
it sure as hell doesnt stay in this country

I didn't see it I'm afraid, but I have heard that reported in the past, that they don't really know how many. I can well believe it and agree completely that statistics can be bent to show whatever you like.

Immigrants take jobs that people here wouldn't want to do, like fruit picking for example. They get paid a lower wage than most UK people would want to take. Stop immigration, those jobs will be forced to pay higher, the cost will be passed on so UK fruit will cost more. But supermarkets competing with each other won't allow that so they will buy cheaper abroad. This puts the UK fruit farmer out of business. All I am saying is that if you stop immigration you'd quickly find that they are part of the fabric of this country and without them there would be big differences for the worse. Fruit picking may sounds small but what about the NHS. The NHS is practically buying in staff from abroad because there aren't enough training in the UK.

As for your comment about all of the money they earn going back out of the country - you cannot be serious? They live here. They eat here. They get their hair cut here. They buy their newspapers here. All that money is going back into the country. Yes they may send a good chunk of their pay packet out of the country, but then a good chunk of my pay packet sits in a bank account. If you think the high street banks are using that money for the benefit of the UK you couldn't be more wrong.

As long as immigrants earning a wage pay their taxes, I'm happy.

Feel free to try to convince me that I am wrong. The above is just my opinion, I may not be correct, I'm just calling it how I see it. And I'm not having a go at anyone. Just debating :)

A good portion of everybody's income goes overseas unless you are one of those rare people that buys British everything. As for healthcare etc, without immigrants we might have about 10% less people to treat but we'd also have about 40% less staff to treat the remaining population!!

That's what the Daily Mail would want you to believe but virtually everywhere in Europe has free healthcare and a benefits system, our healthcare system isn't renowned for being the best by any means and our social security is seen as particularly stingy by many other Europeans, hence why we have higher poverty rates than them.

So in my opinion the argument that everybody wants to come here to leach benefits doesn't make any sense.

Here's a map from wikipedia showing the proportion of immigrants in each country.

As you can most developed countries ( and some poorer ones too) have as high or higher immigrant populations, we are by no means unusual.

Basically the darker the blue, the higher the proportion of immigrants.

Who ever said we needed to'stop' immigration. The problem is clearly out of control. It needs managing effectively. It needs accountability filtering for skills, Australia do it. We seem to leat anyone in as far as I can see. I recently went to Alabania. I went to a club at night and was told by a girl there that all the locals get in cheaper than tourists. The girl also told me she has a job in the uk working in WH Smiths. She told me the job was not very well paid ( in comparison to what she would be paid in her country it was very well paid) and needed a pay rise. I said to her that she was very lucky to have a job in my country, she said nothing.

Please note that not all the beggar are bad, quite a few of them, if not most of them are decent friendly people. Just don't go generalising them yeh?

You are right, she is lucky to have a job. We all are. But I don't see why you would begrudge her wishing for a pay rise. Show me any WHSmiths worker who doesn't want a pay rise. Are you saying she should be on lower wage than UK born WHSmiths workers?

The original point of the post was about beggars and yes, I completely agree that this country should not let in anyone to just come and sit on the streets and beg. But anyone who comes wanting to work should be allowed to compete for a job. Perhaps if they haven't found work within six months then they should be sent back?

People argue that 'they are taking all our jobs'. If they are given preferential treatment then yes, that is unfair and I would stand with you complaining. But if we are all competing on an even playing field then I have no problem with that. If I lost out on a job application to an Albanian who was better qualified than I was, I wouldn't have any complaints. How could I? Employers should always take the best person for the job. If the EU says Albanians are allowed to work in this country then it is no different to a French or Scottish person beating me to the job.

Before immigrating (legally, that is), don't they have to show proof of support? This would be from the petitioner whether it be family or employment-based.

Granted, a lot of legal immigrants enter the U.S. and then head straight for the public assistance line.

There are these restrictions for non-EU residents, at least in theory, don't know how strictly they are enforced though.

With people from other EU countries though who make up a big proportion of migrants there are no restrictions on movement. One of the main principles of the EU is that anybody can live or work in any of the other countries whenever they want without restriction.

When the EU was mostly all wealthier western European countries the flows were pretty even between countries but now a lot of often much poorer countries are in, the citizens of those countries quite understandably want to take advantage of higher wages in Western Europe.

The EU realised that this would happen though and allowed the western european governments to restrict migrants from eastern european member states for a transitional period (5 years?) if they wanted to while East European living standards started to catch up.

The UK government turned this down though as they thought it would be more beneficial to get the influx of cheap labour. Ireland and Sweden were the only other countries to waive this right so naturally most East Europeans went to those countries. As Sweden and Ireland are both pretty small, we ended up getting the most.

I think that as the other Western European countries start to relax their restrictions we will see a bigger 'spread' of East European migration around Western Europe which will relieve some of the immediate pressure some towns are facing.