I realise americans have carried guns since the days of cowboys and seem to be proud to own one but surely this must be a very distinct learning curve in the form of the latest West Virginia massacre. Year in year out we see these tradgic images of young people on american campuses being massacred by gun weilding 'nut cases'!

Have the americans heard of risk assessment ?

From the various blogs where Americans congregate, the general consensus over there seems to be that

(a) The campus authorities were at fault for not 'locking down' the campus more promptly in the early stages of the killing 'spree'.

(B) The whole incident demonstrates the problems caused by excessive gun control - if the other students and staff had been carrying arms, the gunman could have been 'taken out' at an early stage. By 'taken out', I presume they mean shot dead, rather than being treated to a meal in a nice restaurant.

Now I appreciate that blogs etc are not the most representative sample of opinions, as they tend to be dominated by lonely unemployed men with a grudge against the world - probably the same personality type as the gunmen.

Any criticism of their supposedly sacred 'right to bear arms' is generally met with a sneer about Dunblane or Hungerford; generally something along the lines of that we as Europeans have no right to comment while our own house is not fully in order.

That's like North Korea saying that the USA can't claim to be more democratic because it doesn't have elected traffic wardens.

I know that Europe isn't perfect when it comes to violent crime but year after year the USA has way, way more murders and gun crime than we do over here.

I'm not sure that banning handguns either works or is practical in the US but some tightening of who can possess a weapon, what type, what kind of checks they have to undergo, where they have to store it and how much ammo they can buy would surely be sensible.

Well a start would be to close all those gun shops. I bet they even have 'drive-in'ones !

Did you see the Michael Moore documentary "Bowling for Columbine"?
He bought a gun in a bank!?! to show how messed up their gun culture is.

The trouble is, their constitution is second only to the Bible (Koran, etc) so if the constitution says they have a right to bear arms, they will. Nothing and nobody will stop them, regardless of the fact that the constitution was written in a completely different period of history that no longer applies to the present day.

There are two conflicting views on this, though. Many hold that the Second Amendment's "right to bear arms" provision refers to militia-type operations (i.e. law enforcement, civil guard, self-defence in time of invasion/war). In fact, the last time I looked at it, I think the Amendment actually starts by saying something like "a well-organised militia being necessary for the security of the state...", then proceeds to grant the right to bear arms (i.e., many would say, to bear arms as part of serving in a state militia. It's the NRA and others who hijacked this much, much later on.

A quick look at Wikipedia says I was mostly right - take a look. The concept of "right to bear arms" is not as clear-cut as some make out.

Even the Aussies are speaking up against this! Clic Here Perhaps Americas 'hic' of a president will open his eyes a bit now?

Even if America was to outlaw civillian gun ownership tomorrow -would it stop another Virginia Tech massacre from happening again? - personally, I don't think so.
Look at certain places in the UK right now. If a kid in East London sets his mind on slugging a rival with a bullet in the head, nothing is going to stop him.

Slightly different Red. I dont want to tempt providence here but massacres like that dont happen as frequently in this country and normally they can be sparked off by some attention seeking moron wanting their 'fifteen minutes', through seeing stuff like this on TV. One-off gang killings which are probably two a cent in the states and often not reported in our press but from what I read are on a massive scale and the victims are often killed by guns. Indeed in any deprived area in the UK, 'gangland' killings more different than massacres on the scale in West Virginia regretably are getting more common. It is the americans not tackling the problem year-in year-out, that annoys me. They cant just sit back and wait for the next one can they ?

If a kid in East London decides to put a bullet in someone's head, at least it's not easy for him to (a) get a gun and (B) get a bullet, compared to certain parts of the US.

Not that the East End is necessarily the worst, either - I believe it's either Nottingham or Sheffield (I forget which) that's the gun-crime capital of this country. Tends to be more knife crimes in this country, doesn't it?

Point taken - I suppose the Virginia Tech shootings cannot really be compared with the gun crime in Britain. Though of course, there are parallels with the Dunblane and Hungerford epsisodes.

Eatshrewsbury has already mentioned Michael Moore's documentary "Bowling for Columbine" ( like Fahrenheit 9/11) it's well worth watching.

When something goes wrong people usual respoce is BAN IT! Close the gun shops, but thats not going to stop the average looking everyday guy passing someone £100 down the pub for a gun, Hollywood sensationalises guns and violence, so do so called respectable musicians who say yeah man say no to guns & drugs then they get busted doing it, they will always be guns and people who are willing to use then, i think i should have the basic human right to defend myself withought fear of being arrested and jailed for only defending my family, home or myself, the worlds gone to the dogs, bring back hanging and public birching humiliation, name and shame the culptrets on tv, it worrks for other counties, but i forgot we live in britain where you have to appologies to the nutter with the weapon for maybe hurting then in act of defending one self

er, which other countries are these, Britain actually has a very low murder rate and the world hasn't gone to the dogs stop being such a miserablist.

erm.... hello! Are you saying you have no rights Munky? I think were not bad for rights as a nation, you have the right to protect yourself in your home Munky, ok ? Respectable muscians, like who ? 'public birtching humiliation :D who does that ? We have a law which bans guns ok, there banned legally, I think it works. With your law ethic if you bought a gun for £100.00 from a bloke down the pub should you be hung then, or maybe have your hand cut-off ?

I heard you boys were at it again, jerking around newcomers to the forum, just to see how far you can push before they give up. You've reached an all time high. First, you tell a couple of newcomers they don't know what they're talking about because THEY aren't from Shrewsbury. Then, you turn right around and criticize the US because we still practice our right to bear arms. As some of you told MarkLemon and another newcomer, you don't live here, so how can you possibly know what you're talking about? Well, you don't live in the US, so how can you possibly understand how guns fit into our culture. I know that "people like you" believe that guns should be outlawed because you can use them to kill people. Yes, guns kill. So do cars, knives, drugs, and a few million other things. But let me enlighten you. None of these items can kill of thier own volition. It takes some irresponsible idiot to handle them carelessly, resulting in injury or death. And as for that "days of the cowboys" remark, guns were around long before the cowboys were. As you might recall, you guys tried to use them to keep us from breaking away and making our own country when we got tired of your crap, way back "in the days of the cowboys." And, by the way, the cowboys, and our guns, are STILL here! After hearing about your latest tirades about keeping out anyone who isn't a native, and now, accusing us of being backwards over an issue that you can't possibly have a clue about, I think it's time I pointed something out to all of you. The world is built on diversity. Pick up a history book and take a look at how many different cultures came together to create what has been referred to as the British Empire. You people ruled the world until the United States got fed up and kicked you out!
In the light of being informed by you "intelugent" individuals about what an awful place Shrewsbury has become these days because of the arrival of outlanders, hubby and I have decided to give it a miss on our trip to England. I'm sure the local tourist board will be thrilled to hear that you'r'e doing such a fine job of discouraging people who aren't from Shrewsbury to stay away.
And by the way, remember what I said about the internet being kind of like opening your front door and inviting the world in? Don't you think it's time you stopped playing your "juvenile" games and told these guys who you REALLY are?

Just read some more "commentary" on this subject. Let me clue you people in on the facts, rather than your conjecture. Guns in the US are not banned. They are regulated. People who can meet the criteria and who take the training and who can pay the fees can buy a gun. And if you can pass the background checks, you can even get license to carry one. People who have guns and handle them irresponsibly get arrested, lose their rights to buy or own or carry a gun. And, as the old saying goes, only the criminals have guns illegally. And before you challenge my information, you might like to know that I do have a license and I do carry a gun. It might also interest you know that I had cause to exercise my right to bear arms, and that if I hadn't been "bearing my arm," I'd probably be dead.
And a little more FYI, the local law (four agencies, actually) investigated the incident. I still have my gun, and my license. I applaud the UK authorities who are able to maintain law and order on such a high level. But try to remember that the US is a bit larger, thus, a bit harder to have law officers everywhere we need, them, especially in the more isolated, and underpopulated areas of the country. Maybe you guys should hit the "on" switch for your brains before you hit the one for your mouths.

Okay, still reading.
Again, we are MUCH MUCH MUCH larger than Europe, ie, more ground to cover.
Our laws DO regulate who can buy a gun, HOW we can buy a gun, what KIND of gun, and where we can take it and what we can do with it.
As for the NRA and gun enthusiasts, let me first point out that the two are NOT one and the same. But we do agree that nobody needs an assault rifle to hunt deer. People in the law enforcement community support the gun laws because they know that it also acts as a deterent. Would you try to attack someone that you know carries a gun? We had a town in Georgia that passed a law that required everyone to own a gun. Their crime rate disappeared.
It all comes down to one thing--the responsibility of the individual. You can't control what other people do.
And, avron, redsquirrel, proud salopian, --race, religion, nationality, sex, nor age, (the top five excuses people use to discriminate) has nothing to do with why one person goes nuts and guns down others.
And something you have all failed to notice. Every person shot at Virginia Tech was hit at least three times, there were forty dead, and fifteen wounded. Do the math, gentlemen.

chill out Kat, as you can see, the vast majority of forumers here disagreed with the "anti-incomer" sentiment expressed by a couple of individuals just as i'm sure most Americans don't use their weapons to go on killing sprees.

If you don't want to come to Shrewsbury then so be it but you will find exactly the same opinions on guns in any UK town you visit.

It would be interesting to hear a pro-gun opinion on how to reduce the very high US murder rates as you seem to be ruling out gun-control as an option.

All in all I would say don't be so super-sensitive, people are all entitled to their opinions and there's no need to become so aggressive just because they don't agree with yours.

When most people talk about incidents like VT on UK forums they are really discussing their opinions on gun control here in the UK, the US can obviously do what it likes but there is no desire to have US-style gun relaxation here.

Days of the cowboys? Were there a lot of cowboys in the thirteen colonies? I don't recall there being a lot of cowboy ranches on the border between Pennsylvania and New Jersey when I was living there... ;)

Welcome back Kat -you certainly know how to make an entrance. Read my earlier post -I've written nothing that slates America's right to bear arms.In fact if I lived in the U.S, I'd support that right to the hilt.
.. and like you, I believe that it all boils down to who's behind the trigger -not weapons themselves.

Not sure about your line about the world being built on 'diversity' though - At least the politically correct definition of the word, anyway - and I know enough about history to know that America certainly wasn't built on 'diversity' ! (redsquirrel quickly scampers back up his tree)

I knew one or two people when I lived in NJ who did as well, even though in all other matters they were anything but right-wing or conservative. Their reasoning was usually along the lines of "everyone else does" and "what if someone with a gun attacked me"? That brings in the 'violence breeds violence' argument - if the thieves can get guns easily, normally peaceful folk are more likely to want/use guns themselves. Which is sad, in my view, because it becomes a cycle of problems.

Diascrimination and opinion are two different things Kat.

My discrimination is about people who take-up arms rather than negotiate intelligently who would use the bullet to maime or kill without forethought seems americans are fairly gung-ho in this field, and throughout history, especially in wars 'friendly fire' situations no forgotten too! It would be very difficult to regulate gun ownership in the states because everyone seems to have one in the form of a false pascifier for personal security about their person. My brother who works in Austin said that guns are banned in his workplace because an employee of his shot himself in the foot whilst showing off his gun to his colleagues!

The american president is indeed a 'hick', It definately shows you know! I think your next presidential and congressional elections will be based on changing the right to bear arms for any individual

What the hell has population got to do with policing firearms it only shows innefficieny and inconsistancy in your police force, probably because of gun culture anyway

Several of my friends work in the states and they say discrimination on people you call 'aliens' is very aparrant in your soceity.

The use of Guns is also regulated in this country but yuo cant buy them fortunately like a big mac meal over here, and it IS easy to buy a gun in the states even it seems for a mentally ill , I think you guys say unstable, patients in the latest attack at the Kennedy Centre

My question in creating this thread was in a 'nutshell'. When will americans wake-up to the fact they have a big problem here, with each massacre, like sequels in a movie becoming quite regular sights in a seemingly selfish country who are ready to grieve but not to tackle the problem they have created, head-on.

And what is the plural of math?

I strongly suspect that the original post was a copy and paste job put up by some organisation monitoring and posting on every forum around.

Now I appreciate the concillatory tone being taken by many posters on this forum, but I really do not feel like taking this sort of abuse on the chin. So, Kat, here is my reply to your piece as a proud Englishman.

Not true. See below. This is a classic copy and paste opening gambit to appeal to the British sense of politeness, and guilt that we made have made someone feel unwelcome.

Presumably the model post that you're copying has 'add name of forum' in the bit where you've added 'Shrewsbury'.

Nonsense anyway, two examples will suffice. First several people (from both within and beyond Britain) have enquired about names and addresses in Shropshire to help them with their family history. I believe that many posters on here have been generous to a fault in providing them with information. Second, a new poster from Southend near London wrote in several times looking for information on house prices, local schools, etc. - again, many posters on here were generous to a fault in providing her with information.

Oh come off it. Are you seriously suggesting that non-Americans are incapable of appreciating the damage that a gun can cause?

And as for the last bit, how on earth do guns fit into your culture? Are you seriously suggesting that Western films and rap videos are central to American culture? Just because your 'Second Amendment' has a bit about bearing arms, that might have been relevant centuries ago when private armed militias roamed the land, why haven't you moved on like the rest of us?

So we take the precautionary principle and reduce the risk of an irresponsible idiot getting his or her hands on the trigger. It's a British thing, you wouldn't understand.

As you will of course be aware, the British Empire was effectively bankrupted by the Second World War. In 1940 Britain stood alone against tyranny on the European mainland. However, spotting a profit opportunity which only in 2006 we eventually stopped having to pay for, the US belatedly joined in to grab the movie rights.

Please explain to me why, after Britain abolished the slave trade in 1807, your country felt it necessary to fight a civil war over the issue many decades later?

Please also explain to me why you invaded the British protectorate of Grenada in 1983 with absolutely no consultation with the UK?

It's interesting that on this forum we've recently been discussing, in a neutral and even positive way, the arrival of many young people from Poland and the other recent EU accession states into Shropshire.

However, I'm having a celebratory pint right now at the thought that I won't be running the risk of bumping into either of you in Shrewsbury. Had a good chat with my brother-in-law from Oregon today though. I'm glad that there are many Americans who aren't yet raving mad.

No, I don't remember you saying that the internet was 'kind of like opening your front door'. Did you paste that bit on a different forum? I'm not hiding anything anyway. As my profile says, I am indeed 29, and as my handle says, I live on a road in Shrewsbury called Town Walls.

Anyway when we open our front doors on the internet in Britain, we don't generally run the risk of being shot by legally-possessed guns.

And yes, I do criticise your 'right to bear arms'. I think it is an anachronism. I think it is absurd. And to be fair, if you support it, I don't think you can complain in the future if you or a loved one is shot dead.

'Spot-on' TW yeeeeehaw!

I hadn't read this thread before but agree with Town Walls' logic. I notice that "Kat" posted "And, avron, redsquirrel, proud salopian, --race, religion, nationality, sex, nor age, (the top five excuses people use to discriminate) has nothing to do with why one person goes nuts and guns down others." Well that maybe be the case but although I am getting on in years and my eyesight is failing, I can't see where Avron or Proud Salopian had posted on the thread at that point.....

I think we need a little clarification here. I used to participate in this forum on a regular basis. And there was a lot of exchanging between some of the regulars and me back then. Until one day I was told I didn't know what I was talking about because I don't live in Britian. So, I bowed out for a time. I've had things keeping me away for a while, but when I checked in recently, I saw where these same guys are baiting each other, and everybody else, again. It's just a game with them, and I decided to do a little baiting myself.
As for the accusation that I copied some remarks from someone else, now that I seriously have to take exception to. I'm a news correspondent, and I don't have to copy anything from anybody. I'm more than capable of speaking for myself, thank you. And if you didn't understand some of the things I was referring to, you need to go back and read some of your own posts. And stop taking what I say out of context!
As for my gun, don't worry. I plan to leave all of them at home when I come to the UK. Yes, I said "All" of them. Go ahead, ask. You know you want to.

As a news correspondent, I would have expected you to read the posts more carefully before flying off the handle, I said in an earlier post that a total ban on guns would probably not be practical in a US context but I notice that you still haven't posted any positive suggestions that might reduce the murder rate in the US which remains very high for a developed country.

Kat has been on this thread before according to the history. Looks like Red and Kat used to lock horns in a friendly way though. Not sure if the posts are false though ive googled snippets and cant get any matches! Actually I think sometimes people can be rebuffed by some posters. New posters on here have even made these comments. There are rules about this and if they feel the posting is unfair they can complain to the moderators by a clic of a mouse, who I personally think should just moderate. Just a thought moderation team !

The postings aren't fakes, Andy. As I said, it was a couple of years ago that I participated in the forum on a regular basis. We did a lot of debating, and expressing opinions, and trying to understand each other's perspectives, which is all well and good. But one day I did feel offended, something not easily done, and I stopped participating. Meant to go back sooner, but I was distracted--built a new house, welcomes three new grandkids, got sick, had sugery, just now getting back to normal. In other words, life.
As for suggesting a potential solution to gun issues, I think the biggest problem is people getting their hands on them who don't understand what they're holding in their hands. I wouldn't be bothered at all by stronger gun regulations. And by the way, Texas has some of the strictest in the nation, so much so that other states follow our lead. Every other social issue that is a threat to humanity seems to end up with people pushing the same solution--education. It doesn't cure the problem, but it certainly helps. I think the same would be true for helping reduce the number of unfortunate incidents that occur with guns. I've handled them since I was a kid, and taught along the way to handle them safely. I bet if you research the people who use guns in violence, you would find that they just picked one up one day out of fear or anger or frustration.
One thing we haven't addressed-- the need for guns. Yes, we need them, and not just for law enforcement, and not just for personal protection, although my home falls into both those categories. Let me tell about the weapons in our house, to give you and idea of why they're needed in the part of the country that we live in.
One of them is a government issue sidearm. One is kept in my vehicle because we live on an isolated ranch, and drive a five mile long dirt road, with no other homes, to reach our house. I also travel alone through highways where help is as near 25 miles down a dirt road to a ranch house. Another gun is beside my bed. Hubby works nights, and, as I said, nobody here but me. I also have shotgun--perfect for rattlesnakes. I keep the rifle with the scope for the coyotes and wildcats that have pretty much learned to stay away. My horse, dogs, and cats are not here for midnight snacks. They serve a purpose in being here, just as the guns do.
Does this help you to understand that, as in all things, everybody's situation is different?

Hi Kat and welcome back !

I live in the same situation as you do but on a smaller scale! We live in the country, my wife and myself and our two sons who come and go as they please and both work in the city. We dont have guns, local farmers have them though to shoot game and vermin. For all a would-be intruder knew I could have a gun. We rely on a sophisticated CCTV system for our security. It would be worrying for me to have them and wonder honestly in the states from all the satellite programmes I see such as 'cops'an american documentry programme which always seems to involve guns used against your police. I would worry that especially keeping a gun by my bed and if I had young children they may get aceess to it in some way. My brother tell me most station wagons have rifles mounted behind the driver so goodness knows what happens when you guys have 'roadrage' incidents. My point still is that weapons which are easily available in the states are obviously being put to bad use and this will continue unless something is done. What next armoured armed civilian vehicles on your streets in fear of reprucussion as things heat-up, it just doesnt make sense to me

Perhaps this current story from our local newspaper sums up how differently we view guns over here.

"Armed police swooped on two youths at a Shrewsbury shopping arcade after a member of the public reported seeing a group of youths with a gun.

At least 10 police officers carrying guns and wearing full body armour surrounded the youths’ car outside the Co-op supermarket in Mytton Oak Road, Copthorne, yesterday and demanded they put their hands above their heads.

But after a thorough search of the car police recovered a litter picker on the back seat and no weapon was found.

Acting inspector Steve Fitzpatrick said: “A member of the public thought that they had seen the youths with a firearm, so we took appropriate action.

“However, it turned out that it was in fact a two-foot-long litter picker.

“The youths were spoken to and advised about their actions but no charges were brought against them.”

Mr Fitzpatrick said the incident happened at 4.50pm and that the armed response unit and police dog handlers were sent out.

He said: “Fortunately this turned out to be a false alarm but we have to act on information given to us and take appropriate action.”

Catherine Roche, 26, of Mytton Oak Road, said she saw 10 armed officers surround a black car on the car park.

She said: “The police had guns and were wearing full body armour. They surrounded the car and shouted at the two men to lie on the floor with their hands on their heads.

“When they did this the police went over and handcuffed them and searched the car.

“I then saw them chatting with the two men, who looked like teenagers. It was all very dramatic and everyone was wondering what was going on. We were told to stay in our car on the car park until it was all over.”

Another eyewitness, who asked not to be named, said: “The police just suddenly swooped on this car and were shouting at the men. The police had guns and there were police dogs and quite a few cars.”

"You people ruled the world until the United States got fed up and kicked you out!"

Um, where did the United States kick the British out? Obviously the 13 original US states in 1776, but erm, where else?

History lessons I think are needed.

Okay, let's start with Andy. Your situation is just like mine? Don't think so. Is your yard ten miles or more of open desert in every direction? Is the nearest hospital, pharmacy, or movie theatre two hours away? Is your nearest neighbor five miles down the road? Do coyotes (the two legged kind that smuggle people into the country) pass through your property daily? Does the sheriff's office ask you to keep an eye on things because they can't be everywhere at once, but are aware of the illegal activities going on in the vicinity? Which may or may not include drug smugglers, etc. And by the way, "Cops" is not a documentary. It's what we call a Reality show, which are abosutely NOT a reflection of reality. They are considered a joke by Americans.
As for keeping a weapon, first off, if you're not comfy with them, you shouldn't have them. Mine are kept secure, so that no one but my husband or me can get to them, as per the law here.
Which brings me to Town Walls. If someone spotted a gun and called the cops, it would be the same reaction here. Only we wouldn't call in the SWAT team. Again, as per the law, I can carry my gun because I'm licensed, but I have to keep it concealed to avoid alarming the public. And there are restrictions on where I can carry it.
And as for kicking the Brits out, I was referring to kicking them out of the US. But I have noticed that they no longer have a toehold in quite as many places around the world as they once did. Were those history lessons you mentioned for you, Sal?
Finally, hasn't this entire debate proven that we indeed do not understand one another's situation? I've tried not to stereotype the people I expect to encounter in England. I want to come there with an open mind and enjoy the experience of meeting new people who are DIFFERENT from me, who lead lives that are completely foreign from anything that I know. Isn't that supposed to be one of the best parts of traveling?

In another nutshell Kat we manage in our country without guns coyotes or no coyotes!
You mince words a bit also ! I said

I didnt say my situation was just like yours! The nearest hospital about an hour away. We dont have desert in our climate zone I have fields of grass and farmland, beutiful british countryside in fact! Im dumstruck why you call a show a 'reality TV show' when its no reflection of reality, that seems dopey!

Finally we are a small island and the fourth ritchest producing country in the world for a small island thats sure is not bad huh?

We are not the fourth richest country, we have the fourth biggest economy, there are several smaller countries in the rest of Europe and elsewhere that are richer.

As for reality shows, ours are no different, is Big Brother really a good reflection of British life. I doubt Kat is going to bring her gun over here and shoot you so live and let live eh?

I'm entitiled to my opinion just as you are so dont snipe jonesey boy ...eh! :lol: Point taken on richest and most productive !Personally I didnt watch Big Brother and if you think that is 'reality' then poor you too. I would say that was more 'fly on the wall' than reality. I have watched cops because I assume its true. Have you watched it Jonesey ?

I do 'live and let live' ! When it comes to massacres like this more like 'live and let die' which could be your case! I dont turn a blind eye there or hold a selfish attitude towards it!....EH! Also please dont assume that Kat is some kind of gun slinger you could get into trouble saying that!

:blink:

Jonesy, surprised someone as statistically aware a you are would not know that we are now the fifth largest economy in the world - China has recently (2006 or 2007, not totally sure which) overtaken us. Not that is much to be alarmed about, considering that we have 60 million people and they have 1.3 billion!!

The order of largest economies in the world now goes:

USA
Japan
Germany
China
UK
France

Not bad going for us, a small island off the northwest coast of France... ;)

I thought that China had only overtaken us in PPP terms rather than at market exchange rates but if i'm wrong I stand corrected.

They've overtaken us in nominal and PPP terms!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_GDP_(nominal)

In fact, in PPP terms both India and China are larger than we are, pushing us down to 6th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

Still, mighty impressive for a country of our size (in population and land area terms) - we now have less than 1% of the world's population for instance.

i have to agree that i think guns are a bad idea if too free and easy to get hold of-and that is basically why we criticise the usa as the right to bear arms means they are much easier to get hold of. as kat mentions her/himself it is just when irresponsible people who do not know what to do with the guns when the problems such as these masacres arise-which is the whole point. if they werent so easy to get hold of these idiots wouldnt be able to do such awful things. that doesnt mean everyone in the usa is irresponsible obviously , but there is more chance of these things happening due to the right to bear arms.
i agreed with everything town walls said in particular. kat seems extremely opinionated about us in shrewsbury and now isnt coming to visit us-boo hoo. think we can come. but kat is unable to accept any other opinion other than kats own and takes it all very personally .
shut up kat unless you can play nicely